Erik: Joining me now is HonTe Investments founder and bestselling book  author Alex Guravich. Alex has a new book out, of course, the first book  everyone remembers is the Perfect Trade. The next book is called The Next  Perfect Trade. We'll talk about that at the end of today's interview. But Alex, I  want to jump in and start with your specialty, which is fixed income. 

Boy, talk about a moment in fixed income markets where there's a lot of variant  perceptions. Some people are saying, look with Jay Powell going out, Trump is  gonna get his way. We're headed toward much lower interest rates. At the same  time there's other people saying no, it's it's the opposite. 

Too low of a policy rate is going to ignite inflation fears. We could see a crash  in the backend of the bond market. What's your take? How should we  understand the fixed income market and the outlook for bonds?  

Alex: Eric, thank you for having me here. It's good to be back. And yes, let's  start with a fixed income market because I think US fixed income market lies at  the heart of everything, and it responds to probably the most robust set of  economic data, which is US economic data. 

Though admittedly economic data in the US over the last few months has been  quite confusing. Even like to think of the Government shutdown, which  disrupted various economic statistics reports and made them very distorted and  a lot of conflicting data. We could dig into this a little more, but just to look at  the big picture. 

The data has been inconclusive. As for the fears that over easy policy by the Fed  will crush the long end of the curve, I think it legitimate to expect serious  steepening of the yield curve. The beginning of every easing cycle. It's not that,  for example, when people were giving an example, people were talking about  how last year there was a bunch of easings, but long dated yield didn't budge. 

That is actually not strange at all for someone. Who traded almost 30 years of  fixed income markets like myself, I've seen this picture many times over,  starting from, for example, the years like 2001, 2002, when there were periods  when the short term interest rates fell dramatically. But the long term interest  rates were sticky, causing a steep yield curve.

That's a somewhat normal picture. What happens? At least in my experience  that first should't rate and interest rates go down and then long and sticky. Then  eventually, when rates stay low for a while, people get excited about going out  on the curb and picking up the carry and that carry hogging if you wish, leads at  some point a very intense rally in the long end. 

Which is usually also overdone, like it was in 2000, beginning of 2003, ended  up in a sell off. It was overdone during Partially in 2016 and of course overdone  in 2020. All of those, in hindsight, overdone. So those overdone long end rallies  come, but they come much later. So I don't think we're very different from that  playbook so far. 

Just in terms of behavior of market itself. Now a separate thing is to discuss is  what is actually under the hood and how is this economic environment  different?  

Erik: Alex, let's keep that thought going and dive a little bit deeper.  

Alex: There is a concern about the Fed being over easy and creating inflation  with this administration. 

Now I'm probably fall on the side of not being too concerned about the facts of  Fed policy. Different constitution or different like slight hawkishness of ishness  of the Fed, about, I'm not too concerned about this having a major impact. Why  

is that? So I really believe that the difference between hawkish and dovish fed is  at most 50 basis point range for a couple of meetings because eventually the  data dictates. 

One way or another. The reason there is a little bit of range of outcomes right  now, because this data is ambiguous, if the data becomes unambiguous. For  example, if we have inflation continuing to moderate and employment  continuing to deteriorate, any FED hawkish or dovish will take rates down and  eventually take them to zero until the situation rectifies. 

So the difference between dovish and hawkish Fed is really how quickly they  get to inevitable policy, inevitable convergence of policy. Now of course, you  could argue that is the history of the Fed operating on a somewhat reasonable  assumptions versus highly politicized FED I really cannot give you a full 

picture on this because we dunno if the Fed will be completely different.

My intuition for now is that it won't be that different. That's the first thing I'll  start with. And the second thing is what is really gonna win? Inflationary  deflationary impulses on the economy right now.  

Erik: Alex, let's go ahead and dive into those economic drivers. Then, as you  say, we'll set the politics aside and talk about the fundamentals. 

Alex: So what really drives interest rate? Let's start with a very simple principle  that the Fed has dual mandate inflation and employment, and inflation, as we  know has been particularly high, but not necessarily deteriorating even probably  there are many signs of softening inflation and employment. On the other hand  is softening, but not yet convincingly, there is no convincing down spiral. 

So we have that picture of somewhat push pull, both not very strong push pulls  on either side. So that's what creates ambiguity. Now I have to confess, I have a  confirmation bias because for a couple of years now, I've been pounding my fist  

on the table to say that this higher real interest rates will lead to eventually  deterioration in employment because once you make money more expensive,  the balance sheet. Balance sheets start shrinking and people are incent less  incentivized to expand and employ people. 

That's just a normal process. So I was waiting for the cycle to happen. So as I'm  seeing the cycle happening, I'm of course getting a confirmation. Yay, I told  you. The job market is deteriorating, however, it is not de deteriorating awfully  fast. I cannot really claim victory. There are many indications that show it's still  being relatively stable. 

Furthermore, there is a little bit of ambiguity. How much of it's AI Now I fall  into the camp that AI has not yet made a significant dent in the job market, but  will in the long run. That's my view of the situation. I believe that AI will lead  to tremendous deterioration of job opportunities, which is, and again, we can go  into this deeper, but very differently from any other past technology. 

In some aspects, it'll act similar to past technologies in technological advances,  but in some areas it'll act differently. So it's not a single one way how AI will  affect job market. So there will be areas in which AI will do, which past  technologies did, which just change the texture of the job market and in sa and  change the structure of certain economic activities, but without actually taking  them away in certain areas AI will eliminate a whole categories of economic  activities and that interesting it might be headwind not just for employment, but  for GDP as well. This is where I'm not sure, like everybody talks about 

explosive AI growth, and as a person who believes in singularity, of course I  have to subscribe to long term explosive AI driven growth. 

It's hard not to subscribe to it, but I not necessarily see explosive AI driven  growth in the short horizon.  

Erik: Alex, I wanna ask you how you think about where AI fits into the  economy and how it's gonna play. 'cause some people say, ah, AI, it's an  interesting trend, but once they figure out how much the energy's gonna cost,  it'll probably fizzle out. 

I don't see it that way at all. I see AI as being. A cold war like arms race thing,  where it's going to be so important from a military perspective that  governments, particularly US, Russia, and China, are going to recognize that  whoever wins AI was just like, winning the space race in the 1960s was all  about military dominance. 

Once you controlled space, you could drop nuclear warheads from space on the  other guy. I think AI is gonna be that important. And I think that whether you  like the fact that it's going to create an energy crisis, and I think it will or not it's  going to happen because it's going to be a matter of national security. 

Am I just being a conspiracy theorist to say things like that, or do you think it's  gonna be that important?  

Alex: I would say I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think it almost  mathematically impossible to be otherwise. I think that already we're already at  the stage when being skeptic about AI role in the military developments is a  thing of the past. 

There is really almost no room left for skepticism about what you're saying. It'll  almost inevitably will be an arms race in terms of ai. What is interesting, I was  even thinking, which is completely independently of what you just said.  Specifically this morning I was thinking about the impact of AI, and military,  and I was thinking that paradoxically, it'll probably increase dramatically  military budgets because of this AI paranoia. 

But on the other hand, it actually will increase employments because eventually  we're not gonna need ground troops. I think we are outliving the age of ground  troops or just generally military personnel? I think people pointing and shooting  is very close to becoming a thing of the past. And actual human troops will be  used more like mediators.

Peacekeepers rather than as assault force because like it's moving much more to  I think, Autonomous weapons and autonomous weapons will not far function  without complicated AI. And there's just no way a human being can push  buttons as quickly as AI can. So there will be no competition. You cannot have  a human army fighting a robotic army. 

If anybody reads murder Bot diaries, which is popular books this day, so watch  the show. They can feel that humans cannot. Fight against bots, it's not gonna  work. That's kind. But that's my view on the military. So I think it's almost  unavoidable. And I think it touched on something which I think a lot about and  also agree with you, is the energy crisis. 

Erik: Let's move into energy next then, because these are so tightly related. I  think that we're headed toward an energy crisis before AI hit the stage. With AI  hitting the stage, I think AI is gonna become a really big deal. A lot of people, a  lot of regular mom and pop Main Street folks are gonna say, Hey this AI thing  is using up too much of our energy. 

It's making our electric. Bills double in price. We gotta shut AI down. We've  had enough of it. We want our energy bills back to what they were. And the US  military is gonna say no. We absolutely have to keep the emphasis on winning  the AI race because it is an existential threat in the new world, and we have to  continue. 

I think it create, I think it exacerbates an energy crisis that was already certain to  happen. And I think that energy crisis is gonna be. Bigger political topic than  the energy crisis of the 1970s. Do you agree with that? And if so, what's the  outcome and which energy sources do we see need to see the most investment  in where the investment plays? 

Alex: first of all, I will say that like the actual structure of energy market. It's  very hard to predict it. As a macro trader, you almost have to be a scientist,  right? Or a futurist because you don't really there is a political factor. For  example, certain things like Thorium reactors, right? They might be, they  probably feel, we probably all know that they're feasible, but the adoption of  them, there is various political aspects and problems of adoption of various  types of energy could be an issue. 

However. There is a lot of like scientific questions. We don't know what kind of  energy sources will become most efficient or cheapest in the future. How  quickly we're gonna be able to build energy efficiency of computation. So I do  not know exact structure, what's gonna happen, but what I think is undeniable is 

that compute is growing and okay, you could say, I told you I have to say I have  tons, I've been pounding my fist on the table over there for probably about a  decade long before I even knew anything about LMS and chat GPT, it was  always in my head that when I look at the growth of compute, that eventually it  would consume the vast share of energy of humanity that was unavoidable now  for decades. 

The only reason why it was not noticeable, because compute was taking very  small portion of all overall energy, but the way it was growing, it was very clear  that the charts were undeniable. It would overwhelm everything. And I think it's  continuing to, it. It's continuing to grow and it overwhelm all other energy  demands. 

Like there and no, and there is no way, at least in my mind, technology, whether  it's. Renewable sources or introducing more nuclear sources or even fusion will  be able to catch up with it because I know that you tend to be more skeptical of  fusion than I am, but even in the most optimistic prognosis of introduction of  fusion, like even if you're the biggest fusion enthusia, by the time you put fusion  online and actually the actual capacities of fusion, I think the demand for  compute will outrun it. 

And even with the most optimistic view of energy efficiency, improvement of  compute, still compute will grow faster than any of other stuff. I just don't see  how and what would stop that, I think that train is off the rails. So energy will  unavoidably become a bottleneck. What has been a conundrum for me? The  

question that you ask, how to invest in energy. For example, a couple of years  ago I was reasonably constructive on oil. 

I was not long front oil contracts, but I was for long deferred oil contracts. But  and for a while the trade worked okay because whatever the front end was  flopping around deferred oil was earning carry from backwardation. I was able  to sit on it, but last year it went all into downtrend and I just got out of oil. 

I had to wave a white flag there with oil. And my question is now will oil even  be meaningful in terms of powering the compute of the future? Does it even  matter what the oil price is? For now obviously it does, but will we just, the  other sorts of energy become so overwhelming that oil does not even matter? 

Now I've obviously an interesting place to look at has been uranium and it has  been done doing very well, and I've been constructive on uranium mining and  remains so. But then we can see will that be efficient enough? Should we look  at some other chemicals elements, so should we look at other sources of energy.

So overall, the demand of energy will continue growing. That's, for me, that is a  given for me. It's very likely that energy will be the bottleneck for civilization,  for the growth, for I think energy, what we're gonna run into. To me that's the  most likely stumbling block for the next few decades. But the last question. 

What kind of energies actually will be mining and will prove to be most  profitable? I feel a little bit outta depth because. There is a lot of scientific  questions there.  

Erik: It makes sense. Alex and I couldn't agree with you more, that the most  important thing is going to be a thirst for energy and a shortage of energy. 

I see it as a competitive issue between nations and frankly, this scares me a bit,  but China is kicking ass. China is building more. They have more planned and  under construction conventional lightwater reactor based nuclear plants already  

in the works than the entire US fleet of nuclear plants. They are doing more  with, you mentioned thorium reactors earlier. 

They're doing more with molten salt and thorium reactors than anyone else, and  they've advanced the technology that was developed at the Oak Ridge  Laboratory in the 1960s and taken it to the next level. Already, they've already  announced a fleet of container ships to be powered. By thorium reactors, they're  doing on both the conventional and advanced nuclear more than anybody else. 

Meanwhile, they're building out wind and solar and and every kind of  imaginable power plant, and they're doing it. At a pace that's not constrained by  the, in North America we have to have public hearings and consider the  implications on the Native American tribes and so forth before we build  anything. 

They don't follow those kind of rules. The government just says we're gonna  build and build like crazy. And that's what they're doing. And I don't see how  we're going to keep up in what I think is a race for who can build enough energy  to power AI to create military dominance, which is what I think this race is  really about. 

Alex: Yes, I would agree. This is scary. The only thing I would say is that the  history shows when a communist run country starts, this kind of by decree build  out of anything, it usually goes sideways. The history of the Soviet Union  shows, even if it at the moment, it is terrifying, but it's not none less, no less  terrifying.

Those build outs are terrifying. They just in the end sometimes for reasons  which are very hard to predict and that being pointless or useless. Or obsolete or  dysfunctional. So I will not completely, I'm not completely certain that China  will succeed, at what're doing not waste end up huge. Failed state debacle. That  is, at least that's what the history would suggest is gonna happen. 

But first of all, it could be different this time. And secondly, it's terrifying  nonetheless, because failed states can become dangerous as well. 

It's more like the arms race itself is terrifying. It's as you mentioned, this  situation, when there is such a counter position, it is definitely something to  really worry about. I don't know how to trade that, but it's definitely something  to worry about. 

Erik: Going back to what types of energy and maybe things that we could  trade. 

Let me run my thoughts on this past you and get your feedback. It seems to me  like the AI crowd has already figured out that the right strategic long-term  answer is nuclear, and they're already doing a lot of investment on that. But I  think what they're going to find out very quickly is, although that is exactly the  right long-term solution, it. 

It takes longer and costs more to build than you bargained on, and particularly  the takes longer part, I think is going to become debilitating for the hyperscalers  that are used to doing things on a much more immediate timeframe. It seems to  me what's coming is there's gonna be this moment of reckoning where  everybody says, oh boy, we gotta figure out. 

At any cost. What can we build quickly from available fuels that doesn't take as  long as nuclear? And I think the answer is natural gas fired power plants. And I  think that probably the biggest bottleneck is going to actually be the gas  turbines. Those great big turbine machines that are used to create the dual cycle  gas turbine plants, the efficient gas. 

Fired electric generation things, there's like a six year lead time to order those.  Somebody is going to have to massively ramp up production of those. And it  seems to me that gas fired power plants as an interim solution until nuclear can  be built is likely to be a really important investment play of the next decade. 

What do you think of that thesis? 

Alex: It makes a lot of sense for me especially because US definitely has some  natural gas. So that is not probably, as you say, it's probably natural quantity of  natural gas we could get is probably not gonna be the first bottleneck. And it is  also true, yes. Nuclear plants have a 10 year cycle to put them online. 

I don't know if it's correct, but that's my impression. So there is definitely  something like this might happen. The thing that I would say that my take on  this Military Cold War ramp up crisis situation? I think the current, the way the  current wind blows and with the current administration, I feel like us will have  some flexibility to just declare with the various, with our military production  acts to clear some of the obstacles and make things happen much faster. If  they're if they're on the same page as those hyperscalers who are trying to do,  then they could clear a lot of regulations outta the way. That's my impression.  So things might go faster than they have in the past, even in terms of nuclear  power, but in, but that could also pertain to production of those turbines you're  talking about. 

Erik: I think that is already happening in nuclear power. And for anyone in the  audience who's not aware, normally the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has  been in charge of all things nuclear and frankly they're a bureaucratic  organization that I think, has done more to stand in the way of progress than to  regulate it over the 50 or so years that they've been in business. 

The DOE, the Department of Energy is literally end running them and has  introduced their own. Regulatory process to say if you wanna bypass the NRC  completely, you can go for a DOE approval maximum. I think right now they  just increased to 30 megawatts thermal nuclear reactor energy can be prototyped  in a DOE permit without NRC approval. So that's, I think, the first time in the  history of the United States that a that a private sector company could apply for  taking a nuclear reactor critical that means actually making, nuclear energy  from it without an NRC approval. You can get it from DOE now, and as I  perceive this, it's basically some political infighting where DOE says, we're not  gonna wait for the NRC to get its act together. 

Provide the people who need it with an alternate path to, to get to nuclear  energy. And already a bunch of companies have jumped on that. Now, that  doesn't allow you to build the gigawatt power plants that we need, but it does  suggest that maybe we're on the path to getting there. And what I think is gonna  happen is we're gonna realize, it still takes years to get some of these new  advanced reactor designs figured out and scaled up and ready to really build at  scale. In the meantime, we need a whole bunch more natural gas. We got plenty  of gas. It's not gonna be a question of there not being enough gas and. As I 

understand it now, it only takes about a year and a half to build a new natural  gas fired power plant. 

Once you've secured the the turbine the turbine itself, there's something like a  six year backlog to order those things, and that's where I think somebody's  gonna have to do some, as you say, wartime kind of thinking to dramatically  upsize the capacity for building. More natural gas, fire power plants quickly,  and I'm trying to figure out what the investment play is in order to get on top of  that one. 

Alex: Yeah, definitely that would be an interesting play. But under this thesis,  anything related to energy build up where the nuclear natural gas could be a  good play because both of them could work out because as a, you could argue  that if energy demand will grow as far and as rapidly as we think. Any marginal  energy will be good. Any sort marginal source of energy, any incremental  energy will go up in price. That could be one argument, but another argument  would be that certain energy sources will just go outta style and nobody will pay  attention to them. That those are the two arguments I'm torn between. 

But definitely energy is an interesting sector and whatever happens in energies I  wanna reiterate, I do think that will be the bottleneck.  

Erik: Let's move on to another sector, which boy is really getting your attention  if you are long, precious metals. We've just seen a whipsaw in the precious  metals market as well. 

It's a whipsaw in gold. It's more knocked out and down for the count in silver  and bitcoin. What's going on with precious metals? Why, a lot of people are,  were saying that it was caused by Kevin Walsh's nomination. I don't believe  that. I think it may have been a catalyst to bring about a, an overdue correction. 

But what do you think happens next here for precious metals and what caused,  what just happened?  

Alex: Yeah, first talking about the nomination to me. It is more likely as what  you're saying, and that's what I wrote in my recent investor letter, that if you  notice, the nomination didn't really impact the dollar or the interest rates that  much. 

Everything moved just a tiny bit, but there was no real big repricing. So clearly  precious metals were reprised because there was some vulnerability there and  it's unsurprising given, like how huge and relentless was the rally in, for 

example, silver that probably some people are very long silver and then they  had probably some trailing stops and, which as people often do, when you have  a market on which you have huge gains, you don't wanna quite give them up. 

So you put a trailing stop, right? But then when as trailing stops starting getting  taken out, suddenly markets starts gapping down and it has to clear at the level,  which is more like. Close to the long term trend. I do not honestly know if that  signifies the end of the precious metal cycle. 

It's hard for me to say because silver ran for, I was constructive on silver for  very long period of time, but it ran much further than my price targets. It  reached my price targets in 2025 and went past them and went further and  further. Like I did think that silver would get to 50-60 I didn't really have. 115  penciled in for January, 2026. 

Not that I said it couldn't go there, but my conservative price targets were lower.  To me the most interesting about precious metals is they have very long, multi year cycles and they're not simultaneous. There is gold wind. Much earlier than  silver. 

And while gold was making new highs recently, it definitely slowed down  compared to silver. And silver was dormant forever, and then silver took off and  overtook gold. If you look at gold silver ratio, it went from extremely high to  actually to the lower end of the range in January. Now Platinum was sitting  dormant for even longer. 

Platinum was basically sitting at $900,000 forever, and then it took off in 2025  and started trying to race to catch up to silver, but it's still way behind now.  They all corrected, but to me gold seems to be a flatlining. Silver is trying to  decide. Platinum I think is still early in its cycle. Of course we can also go to  Palladium, which I'm working, watching currently slightly less, but also  interesting metal. 

And it has to do like platinum palladium ratios have to do with, of course EV  adoption and like the industrial use. But platinum has pretty solid underlying  other, some store of value demand, some jewelry demand. So there are, it  cannot be just attributed all to. Automobile industry usage. So I think it's very  hard to pinpoint what moves precious metals on a given day. 

It's easier to just look at the charts and see what are the price ranges for them.  And to me, if you look at historical range, I see silver might have done the full 

cycle. Gold has gone further than one would've expected, and platinum has not  yet gone very far.  

Erik: Alex, let's move on to Japan and the Japanese Yen. What's your take of  what's going on there?  

Alex: There has been, like, if you really think about global macro markets, the  moves in Japan are probably away from the volatility and precious metals.  Japan had probably the most movement, the most interesting movement, and the  interest rates. Rose dramatically in Japan with curve Steepening. 

Who would've thought that like some bonds yield in Japan will touch 4%? I  think like a few years ago it would be completely unthinkable and yen in Japan  actually running persistent inflation and yen significantly weakening. Against  dollar and even more so against other low yielding currencies you could look  like, for example, Yen weakening significantly against China, against Swiss  Franc is probably the most dramatic currency pair. 

That trend has been relentless and it seemed like every single thing that  happened in Japan on the political front reiterated this trend, like the elections,  the new election. Iteration of the power of the current ruling party. All of this is  like more spending weak again, strongest stock market higher interest rates. 

That seems to be the theme. I do think that we could be at an inflection point of  this theme because now I think all of this is priced in and also all of this is  priced in. And also besides. The story, there's also location. We're seeing very  high interest rates in Japan and extremely weak currency. 

Typically, we develop market currencies. There is some sort of pendulum that  eventually slows down and starts swinging in that direction. And one of the  things I started to think of about, and particularly recently is, okay, we got  strong stock market, very pro growth policy. We have high bond deals, why  wouldn't people wanna invest in Japan right now? 

And if people wanna invest in Japan. Either by repatriating money to jbs or to  foreign foreigners buying JGBs or people trying to still get a piece of Nikkei, as  it keeps rallying and Japanese stock market or investment, why wouldn't that  eventually lead to stronger yen? And just over the last couple of days, that  sentiment seems to have shifted in that direction. 

I still don't know if it's a long term Tectonic shift, just a blip compared to the  overall trend. But that is something for me, interesting to look at. And what is 

interesting for me is that in my first book, the next Perfect Trade I talked about,  certain perfect scenarios that occur sometimes. And one of the great trades of  the past was in 2014 to be long dollar when dollar was very weak and long US  bond market when the shortterm interest rates were low. But the curve is very  steep and we have the setup in Japan right now. We're having very steep yield  curve and very steep yield curve. Still low. Very low real rates because of  inflation. 

Very low nominal rates in front, steep yield curve, and very weak currency. And  we have the situation that if BOJ is not going to tighten you just make money on  the roll down of the long end of the curve. But if BOJ continues to tighten,  eventually it'll strengthen the currency and the long end of the curve will  probably be fine anyway because the curve will just flatten.. 

So I'm seeing that. Seeds of the really positive situation to long currency.  Maybe you should belong everything stock market there too, but I'm a little  more ambiguous on stock market, but long currency and bonds in Japan.  

Erik: Alex, you just mentioned your first book written in 2015, the Next Perfect  Trade. 

I wanna come back to that. That book got a lot of attention when it was first  published. You talked about being a macro trader and really broke down what  you did and how your process works, looking for dislocations in markets. Then  in 2022, you wrote another book called The Trades of March, which was all  about the COVID pandemic and the trades that you had to make in March of  2020, and what that process was like. 

You've got a new book out. You've gone back to the original title, which is, it's  not the same book. It's a new version of the Next Perfect Trade. Why now for a  sequel to your first book and what's it about?  

Alex: I wanna go back to what always bothered me about strategy books. It's  them survivorship bias. 

So when I wrote the book in 2015, which came out, I was writing it 2014-2015  It's was a strategy book it is a set of strategy principles, how I choose trades,  which are more likely to make money in the long run, how to make myself be a  casino rather than a gambler. Basically turn the how to gain the edge in the  market, in my favor in the markets, regardless of whether my economic views  are correct or wrong. So I was trying to focus on how not to figure out the  economic outcomes, but how to structure.

We need trades which bring you positive expectations. So that was what my  book was about, but by definition, this book arose from the fact that I had some  success trading up to that point. And people who don't make any money,  generally, it's much harder to get your people to read your book. So but it had an  element of looking back and just saying that worked for me and hence I'm  proposing it. 

So the question would have to remain with the readers. Whether the principles I  laid out in this book would continue to work going forward. Do they actually.  Have value or is it just a coincidence that those principles worked prior to the  time the book was published? 

Now, in, in when I wrote the trades of March about COVID trading, I refer to  my first book a lot and like how the principles lined up, they popped up, but it  was not in a systematic way obviously a very unusual enviroment and  navigating those highly unusual situation, and I did talk about how I drew from  the experience of previous crisis such as September 11th or global financial  crisis, what I've learned and the mistakes I made back then and how I was, what  things I was able to do better in 2020 and what things came up again. But that  was more of a feel of a trading diary. 

Now I went back and wanted to do a second edition of my first book. Because I  wanted people to really be able to judge objectively how my principles did  actually work out, and also I wanted to be judged whether I'm occurring to  them, myself or not. That's one of the reason, going back to the trades of March. 

That's one of the reason the trades of March that published our internal trade  chatter without reductions so people could see all our screw ups, all our  successful, so people could really be in a cockpit with us and see the process.  What I'm doing here, I wanna put more like intellectual cockpit and say, okay,  this is my text on 2015. 

This is what I said in thousand 15. And then I added notes from 2025. Saying  this did indeed work out correctly here I was wrong. Or this principle, I've  actually succeeded in applying in such and such situation. And this principle I  failed to apply. And those are mistakes I actually made even. 

According to my own strategy, which is probably the worst kind of mistake, the  worst kind of mistakes, which you laid out your own strategic principles and  then ended up not having the discipline to follow them. And I'm totally open  about the fact, and I think really every trader has to be open about the fact that it  does happen to all of us.

We all have our vulnerabilities, our moments of. Either stubbornness or  confirmation bias or laziness or procrastination or fear or whatever it is that led  us or succumb being succumbing to external pressure, which leads us to deviate  from what we think is the absolute best we can do. All we can strive is to be the  closest we can to the best we can do, but none of us can do it perfectly. 

And I'm trying to really delineate in this book where and how you can notice  both the successes and the flaws of my thinking of 2015. The ideas were quite  current I believe that artificial intelligence will step in to augment everything we  do. But what I said back then that there was a certain horizon, in my opinion,  left for discretionary trading. If anything, I think the horizon shot on the bit  because artificial intelligence grew even a little faster. 

Then I expected, even though I was always optimistic on artificial intelligence,  but it went unscheduled and I'm giving this as an example to trace my thinking,  was my thinking aligned with what happened afterwards, and was my trading  aligned with my thinking? 

Those are two separate questions, but both of them are important.  

Erik: Alex, I really wanna salute you for the honesty that you show and the  approach that you take of highlighting your own mistakes. As you say we all  make them. There's nobody who's exempt from that. What's quite unusual  though, is Wall Street guys admitting their mistakes publicly. 

So many people in this industry, just to highlight, look at what I did here. I  made this incredible winning trade. Hooray for me, without acknowledging that,  their actual long-term trading record is not nearly so good. So I really applaud  you for. Are, taking this open book approach to doing things for people who are  fascinated with this. 

Help us understand, though, because this new book is really a rewrite or a new  version of the original next perfect trade. Does it make any sense at this point to  read the first one? Should people start by reading the new edition of the Next  Perfect Trade and then maybe the trades of March? Is there any reason at this  point to, to read the 2015 book? 

Alex: No, I think people should read the current book because all the material  which was in the first book is still there. In fact, I mostly kept the wording of  the first book, even though I could have edited it more because I wanted people  to read what I wrote back then and what I wanted to be very exact about.

This is what I was thinking back then. And then I have a note. This is what  happened Now. So I take everything, all the content, everything you can get  from the first edition, you can have in the second edition. So now it's the second  edition of this book that is for sale on Amazon and that's what, or in other  venues, and that's what I encourage people to purchase. But however, if you  read the first book, you can still find a lot of value to in reading the second  edition.  

Erik: And the second edition is very reasonably priced at only 10 bucks on  Kindle right now. I assume that's an introductory price. It looks like the the  normal price is 32 bucks and it's 10 bucks right now. 

How long does that last?  

Alex: I think Kindle will be there for a little bit. It's $32, I think it's for hard  covers. So there is like a hard car or paperback, Kindle versions. There will be  Amazon. You know, I cannot really control honestly the prices. So that Amazon  does always, because Amazon does its own things. Yeah, just I incur, I'm just  asking people to give it a shot. 

And if you read it please leave reviews on Amazon. It's very helpful and also  generally helps me to know what people think about it.  

Erik: And of course Alex, when you're not writing books, you also run a very  successful hedge fund for our accredited investor audience that's able to invest  in hedge funds than our institutions. 

How do they get a tear sheet and more information about your fund?  

Alex: People who wanna find out more, either about my fund or about any  other. Any of my writing or publicly available information should go to my  website, Honteinv.com It's HONTE INV .Com. And there will be like a publicly  accessed areas with various articles and books are published and everything like  that. 

And also for qualified purchases they could apply to get kind of Insight and  discuss investments, but that's not something that is open to general public.  

Erik: Alex, I can't thank you enough for a terrific interview. Patrick Ceresna and I will be back as Macro Voices continues right here macrovoices.com.